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one of the biggest decisions in their lives. A number? . Okay. Go ahead Yeah. Yeah? Right. But a decision that will be with them and, in fact, the rest of their lives. Ah, they liked you. Very good. They liked it. Yeah, right You started at , went to , went to , same thing’s going to happen in church. And I noticed that your breathing was changing. Uhum. And you were controlling it more. That’s what was important. It remains to be seen whether virtual reality will help Kathleen to do the real thing. In Norfolk, England, Games Keeler struggles daily with the feelings of terror she has about mice. She too feels that any form of behaviour therapy will bee too traumatic. Nothing could persuade me to touch a mouse. Nothing. If somebody put a cage there full of mice, with a million pound in the middle, I could no way, even if I could keep it I just couldn’t take it out. And as much as I need that money I could not take it. I just couldn’t. Nothing would persuade me. I’d be in there like a shot. That’s the worst thing, thinking about therapy. There’s only one way of finding out if you could isn’t there? Yeah. I know. That’s got to be like hell. Living in the countryside means every nook and cranny of Games’s house has had many mouse visitations. I have to use this to get the tea-towels, but I don’t like it, because when we had a mouse in the house there were some mouse droppings just down there. And I don’t like that cupboard either. Games’s fear of mice is matched only by her passion for the pigeons she and her husband show. Their daily handling of these birds is something Game Kelly would find totally abhorrent. Those dirty birds, they’re just disgusting. There’s nothing to be afraid of than a feather, is there? I could pick a mouse up rather than a pigeon. That would not be a problem. If I sat in a room and somebody let a load of mice out, I think I would die. I really think I would just stop breathing and I would die. Games and Game have come to the Institute of Psychiatry in London to take part in an unusual research project.